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The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.
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Should we replace the not-a-forum tag with a FAQ explaining the naming dispute and that the name "Arabian Gulf" won't be replaced in the article? NotAGenious (talk) 13:30, 6 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I can't access the source either. It does seem to be an overstatement (however impliedly made). Iran was part of the Arab caliphate from the 7th to 10th centuries - there could, in no sense, be a "Persian navy" during this time. It was then mostly subject to various Turkic and Mongol empires (but many of them were Persianate) until the 16th century when the Iranian Safavids gained control. There was, therefore, a substantial gap in "Persian" naval control after antiquity - for exactly how long is debatable. The wording should be adjusted - but to exactly what? DeCausa (talk) 22:51, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Having looked at it again I've simply removed the sentence "Persian naval forces laid the foundation for a strong Persian maritime presence in Persian Gulf, that started with Darius I and existed until the arrival of the British East India Company, and the Royal Navy by mid-19th century AD.". For the reasons stated above it can't be correct. Also the cited source source is about Ancient Persia so it either is ill-qualified to comment on the 2,500 years after Darius, or, in fact, doesn't comment. Thirdly, it doesn't actually seem relevant to the section which is about the Gulf in antiquity. DeCausa (talk) 23:41, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am just wondering why the unrecognised name "Arabian Gulf" is included in this article, while the Gulf of Mexico page doesn't mention the "gulf of America" in the lede. Both are unrecognised names used only by certain countries and literally never used in everyday English. شاه عباس (talk) 17:07, 28 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Because of community consensus. The Arabian Gulf name has been discussed here lots and the editors here have agreed on placing that name in the lede section, unlike the "Gulf of America" trump bs which editors on that page have decided not to put in the lede 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨Abo Yemen (𓃵)17:34, 28 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
So what you're saying is every individual page has to reach a different consensus? The 'Arabian Gulf' is bs pushed by Arab states and is never used in any English sources, English wikipedia should reflect English usage. شاه عباس (talk) 06:20, 30 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
So what you're saying is every individual page has to reach a different consensus? That's not what I'm saying. That's the policy The 'Arabian Gulf' is bs pushed by Arab states and is never used in any English sources, English wikipedia should reflect English usage. big claim without any proof. There are sources that use the Arab Gulf name and virtually all sources have a mention of the dispute. 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨Abo Yemen (𓃵)06:31, 30 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not going to prove to you why the sky is blue, kid. A petty name dispute initiated by some made-up nation states doesn't change the English language usage of terms. Did you catch the last part? English. Language. If the usage you are referring to is not used in English, which it isn't, it's completely irrelevant to encyclopedic enquiries conducted in English. There is no dispute as far as normal, educated people are concerned.
I could care less whether it's called the Persian Gulf, the Arabian Gulf or the Pixieland Gulf. The facts are these:
the predominant name in the English language is Persian Gulf by far;
it is known as Arabian Gulf in Arab countries;
because of 2 above there is minor reference to Arabian Gulf in other English language contexts - for example, see the citations in Persian Gulf naming dispute#United States;
Wikipedia policies particularly WP:COMMONNAME and WP:ALTNAME means that facts 1-3 translate into how the article is currently presented. This was confirmed by the community by an WP:RFC whch determined WP:CONSENSUS. You coming here claiming that you're not going to "prove the sky is blue" is therefore irrelevant.
Iranian and Arab nationalist POV-pushers regularly come here to try to remove either name for reasons that have got nothing to do with facts 1-3 or Wikipedia policy.
Because of these facts (supported with citations in this article and in the Persian Gulf naming dispute) three things result: (a) the article name won't be changed from Persian Gulf (b) a reference to Arabian Gulf as a minority WP:ALTNAME won't be removed. (c) POV attempts to remove either name will be ignored. Live with it. DeCausa (talk) 08:13, 4 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The reasons for and against including it in the lead, and if it were to be included what wording it should have, was debated at length and in detail here. It included a process called WP:RFC which results in the issue being publicised across Wikipedia to ensure as wide an input of views as possible and the conclusions of the subsequent debate being summarized/determined by a neutral editor. This was therefore how the WP:CONSENSUS was decided. While consensus can change, it would require an equally extensive process. Any change or deletion of the wording (which both of you have attempted) will be reverted if it doesn't go through that process to determine whether consensus has changed. Given the content of that discussion, I think it is highly unlikely that consensus will change any time soon. DeCausa (talk) 07:21, 30 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Expecting an editor new to this article to know about the rfc without writing a comment next to the text that there has been a consensus on a specific wording is crazy. The note should've been there ever since the rfc had concluded two years ago and not after I edited it 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨Abo Yemen (𓃵)08:15, 30 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You better send your letter of complaint to customer services. Or the editors involved. I think you'll find that your disappointment with such craziness would apply to pretty much every RfC in Wikipedia (with the possible exception of articles where petty nationalist squabbles play out with tedious regularity). DeCausa (talk) 08:57, 30 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Ignoring the really really funny customer services joke, this article is one where petty nationalist squabbles play out with tedious regularity judging from the page's history. Anyways I've modified the comment to have a link to the RfC (tho yes it isn't clickable) 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨Abo Yemen (𓃵)09:49, 30 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
There is a section with text quoting Darius the Great, talking about digging the Canal of the Pharaohs from the river Nile to Persia But the Canal of the Pharaohs page makes it clear that this canal ran from the Nile to the Red Sea. So that quote is nothing at all to do with the Persian Gulf, other than containing the word Persia. Surely it should just be deleted? 88.202.140.36 (talk) 09:35, 31 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The Arabian Gulf is incorrect
Please edit as soon as possible, you miserable Arabs!
You have nothing and you want to take everything for yourself by taking over...like you took over Iran 1400 years ago Miss.pavandi (talk) 15:41, 26 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I am requesting a factual correction regarding the naming of the Persian Gulf in this article. The term “Persian Gulf” is the only internationally recognized and historically accurate name for this body of water. The inclusion of “Arabian Gulf” contradicts established historical, legal, and academic sources.
Why “Persian Gulf” is the Only Correct Name
1. International Legal Recognition:
• The United Nations (ST/CS/SER.A/29/Add.2) explicitly states:
“The term ‘Persian Gulf’ is the standard geographical designation recognized by the United Nations and should be used in all official UN documents.”
• International organizations, including National Geographic, Encyclopædia Britannica, and Oxford Atlas, exclusively use “Persian Gulf.”
• Maritime agreements and official maps from the UK, US, and global institutions all confirm “Persian Gulf” as the sole legitimate name.
2. Historical Accuracy:
• Ancient Greek and Roman maps, including those from Ptolemy and Strabo, referred to it as “Sinus Persicus” (Persian Gulf).
• Islamic scholars like Ibn Khaldun consistently used “Persian Gulf” in their works.
• The term “Arabian Gulf” was historically used for the Red Sea, not the Persian Gulf, as confirmed by British Royal Navy documents.
3. Wikipedia Policy Compliance:
• Neutrality (WP:NPOV): Including “Arabian Gulf” gives weight to a politically motivated term rather than a historically established one.
• Verifiability (WP:V): The vast majority of reliable sources exclusively recognize “Persian Gulf.”
Requested Changes
• Remove “Arabian Gulf” from the introduction and infobox.
• If necessary, mention it only in the “Controversies” section, clearly stating that it is a politically driven and non-standard term.
• Align the article with Wikipedia’s core principles of accuracy, neutrality, and verifiability.
This request is based purely on historical and academic accuracy, without any political bias. I appreciate your time and consideration and look forward to your response.
level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
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Not done: Also, that's not nice of you to say :( 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 16:42, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the 